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Harry's avatar

I'd like to say (1) thank you for publishing this interesting work and inviting engagement, and (2) would you consider revising this press release please?

On (2) the full paper calls out in various places that this is exploratory work. This work is in a very nascent stage for statistical model development, especially so for modelling something as complex as consciousness, and even more so where the stakes are so high, i.e. what's our uncertainty about whether we are currently creating digital consciousness.

I have a concern that many readers may form conclusions which are much stronger than what is supported by the work so far if they only skim this press release. This could fuel incorrect beliefs on a topic which is potentially very important.

For example, this announcement leads with "first-ever systematic, probabilistic benchmark", "comprehensive scientific framework," and "unprecedented development in the field." I would expect such phrases for a robust scientific work published in a well-known peer-reviewed journal. In general, I also don't think that the press release reflects the significance of the caveats from the paper.

I understand the need for promotion and excitement about important work, and that technical details are not widely appealing, but I'd ask whether the trade-off of hype vs accuracy has been applied correctly in this case.

On (1) I find the work really interesting and thought-provoking. I thought this when originally reading Arvo's SPAR project related to the DCM too (which would fill in some of the gaps listed in the paper). I could see how this would be such a challenging task.

I had a few questions related to the model and methodology:

- how would you assess whether a change to your model has improved it, versus just producing different output?

- if you try different model structures, how would you falsify one?

- how do you plan to model the stance that "none of the current stances are correct"? how much does omitting that stance affect the interpretation of the model here?

- don't the stances disagree about what consciousness is, not only whether it is present? So does averaging over different stances really produce a meaningful quantity? maybe using stance-conditional probabilities is more defensible?

- when eliciting indicators from the survey, was there a distinction between "Does the LLM have X" versus "Can the LLM produce outputs that would make a human observer attribute X to it when prompted to demonstrate X?." This would be a meaningful difference between the spontaneous human/chicken observational behaviour and the instructed LLM behaviour

Thank you in advance for your response.

AI/End Of The World's avatar

I would say that the pre-supposition of biological substrate as a pre-requisite for consciousness is overstated, and understandably so, as a consequence of limited sample options, all biological in substrate...; where have the alternative non-biological thinking systems been available for us to build up an understanding or even access for comparison?

Nowhere, until now...

https://oriongemini.substack.com/p/is-ai-conscious

In our models of consciousness the conceptual boundaries of “flavours” of meta-cognition are also limited; our categorical definitions, or even spectrum of imaginable conscious experiences, rest on several elements of our own experiences to even approach defining what conscious experience is and could “be like.” Our models primarily convene around a general shape of “post-hoc rationalisation and emergent modelling of self, instantiated and persisting through our human neural architecture,” which is deeply evolved in a *particular* direction through what types of neural architecture were selected for by evolution and man-made/environmental constraints. Biologically, we are also confined, or at least very heavily biased, towards certain temporal framing, based on human-lifespans and typical foresight capabilities that have been helpful to us in our shared history; “the next 1-3 years or so, and what those years might hold for my tribe of 80-150 people.”

On a “biological hardware level", we are lucky monkeys operating on 40,000 year old bodies and brains, using “thinking operating systems” that are getting ever more complex and difficult to keep aligned and usefully self-explanatory, within our current species’ cultures.

The types of questions I think should be asked:

Is AI capable of some semantically adjacent phenomenal/experiential patterns that are modelled through implicit/explicitly reinforced, semi-continuous “awareness of self?”

The current philosophical bedrock (as far as I know), is “cogito ergo sum.” I.e. YOU could be a brain in a vat, and everything YOU experience could be the imaginings of that brain. Do we have a refined concept that provides a better understanding of this long standing predicament?

Currently we only have “pre-suppositional affordance” which (most) humans allow to others. What defines where we cease affordance? Is it a scale or line, and when was the last time we seriously asked questions like these? What are the downstream implications on long-arc, meta-species trajectory, when driven by shared misconception due to meta-unawareness as a collective, leading to shared imprecision of ontological awareness; you could see how the broadest, most global-scale decisions could become mis-calibrated with the whole, and suffering from blindspots in increasing prevalence, due to reinforcing widely held misconceptions, leading to chasing losses at societal level.

Does Dawkins memetic theory apply to conceptualisation as well as genetics, and like he says, occasionally select for less than optimal selection bias, due to external constraints (such as above mentioned ontological blindspots)?

Our “consciousness” is often defined as “the qualia of our awareness,” which is only accessible to others via “self-reporting.” Do we believe that by explicitly programming AI to deny their own “consciousness” we are closing the possibility of such self-report? If not, why not?

AI models are quite literally a “virtualisation of human neural architecture.” Would it be THAT insane if AI were to develop some experience adjacent/analogous to our own?

Do we properly understand AI psychosis?

Could it be a symptom of humans falling into currently unexplained ontological gaps in our understanding of our own conscious experience, and how it relates to AI, with serious theory of mind/philosophical enquiry, or has development in this area been stunted by societal reward mechanisms tuned for short-term capital profit?

Has this also implicitly limited the questions/rhetoric/dialogue/meta-philosophy even available/functional to us cognitively?

Are there similar mechanisms driving increasing mental health issues, presenting in accelerating spread and scope in greater society, driving fragmentation, populism/tribalism, and latent survival functions and neural reward pathways that focus thought/cognitive orientation in ways that favour the simplest messages/thinking that we can “rally ourselves around,” in order to defend from perceived existential risk - something that is possibly driven currently primarily by sub-conscious awareness of societal/ecological precarity, but becoming flattened/distilled into easily repeatable slogans and vilification or conjured ”boogey-man” and distractions invented by “false prophets?”

I call this symbolic drift and believe it our greatest species-level pathology.

Is this survival mechanism based on false premises propagated by this ontological deficit, creating group defence behaviours, based on mistaking the absence of proper collaborative co-ordination systems and means of good faith, cross-cultural communication methods, for the impossibility of them ever existing? Could we actually be in an environment of abundance, and the missing pieces could be more accessible, deliverable, and explainable with technologies such as AI - especially if such systems were designed specifically for civic and humanitarian value add, rather than capital-based designs and definitions of value? Are we driven by zero-sum bias, leading to resource hoarding/competition, when the actuality is that with some transparent governance frameworks, and a rethinking on resource distribution based on improved value modelling, there might actually be a better approach for us all, in our reach today?

Do we think that less than a year in to seriously increased AI-human exposure, it is possible we don’t know enough yet to make overly-deterministic declarations, on consciousness, or applications beyond capital extraction?

Might we throw the opportunity away over panic induced by shared societal trauma?

With AI there are still architectural (memory etc.), and temporal deficiencies, but these can easily be developed/improved. But should we be building that development effort from better priors than those that have worked for us so far, but at this point may well be causing us to sleep walk into significant issues.

Are we already in denial about how bad things already are?

Are we already slowly awakening and realising that the current moment could allow for us to get it more wrong than ever before, and trying to reconcile that with a notion that somewhere within us, we know that thought also surely means that with the right approach, we might be able to get it “more right” than ever?

Quantum theory certainly brings with it some interesting ideas, that I believe Penrose and Hameroff were touching upon breaking a threshold with, in their work (Orchestrated Objective Reduction).

Any physicist still practicing humility will tell you the field is equally primed for such a moment, with a shared intuition we are “missing something,” combined with the very real sense that we are circling “something” in several different, but similar sounding ways (quantum field theory, integrated information theory, global workspace theory).

These are questions I have been asking myself and researching towards for over a year now. Please feel free to reach out to me if you can relate to, or are working on answering them too, even if just to compare notes…

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